| Episode number | MB23 (Part 23 of 42) |
|---|---|
| Original air date | June 17, 1993 |
| Broadcast | Hour of the Time, WWCR shortwave |
| Chapter title | Jordan Maxwell Interview |
| Format | Live interview |
| Guest | Jordan Maxwell, independent researcher of occult symbolism and secret societies |
| Listen | Stream the series on archive.org |
Episode Summary
Episode 23 aired on June 17, 1993, and is the only solo interview in the Mystery Babylon series conducted with a guest Cooper had never previously met in person. Cooper introduces Jordan Maxwell as an independent researcher whose work since 1959 had run parallel to his own, reaching the same conclusions about secret societies and occult symbolism in modern institutions. The two had been brought together by mutual contacts who recognized the alignment in their research.
Maxwell opens by tracing his interest in the subject to his mother’s uncle, who worked in the Vatican’s Secretary of State office as a civilian and shared accounts of behind-the-scenes intrigue during visits home. From that starting point, Maxwell describes forty years of study into fraternal orders, ancient occult societies, and the symbols those societies continue to use in modern corporations, government agencies, and educational institutions.
The central argument Maxwell advances is that the world is saturated with occult symbols that most people pass over without recognition, and that these symbols, if read correctly, tell a coherent story about a continuous religio-political scheme operating from the pre-Sumerian world into the present. He opens by connecting the three-tiered altar of the church, the three-tiered bench of the courtroom, and the three degrees of Freemasonry, arguing that judges, priests, and graduating students all unknowingly participate in the same ritual hierarchy. The black robe worn by judges, clergy, and university graduates is traced to the Saturnalian cult and the worship of Saturn, to which black was assigned as a sacred color. The square mortarboard of graduation, he argues, is the mark of the brick mason’s tool, and the word alumni derives from the word for the illuminated.
Maxwell turns to the doctrine of Ordo Ab Chao, the Latin phrase for order out of chaos, which he identifies as an operational principle of the ancient cults and their modern successors. His claim is that crime, drug traffic, and social disorder in American cities are deliberately maintained rather than controlled, because an sufficiently frightened population will surrender political power to whoever promises to restore order. He cites Hitler as a worked historical example: Cooper agrees, and the two discuss the technique as applicable to the contemporary United States. They also address urban gangs, arguing that their graffiti contains identifiable Masonic emblems and seals, and that no street gang could have independently devised these symbols, implying coordination from a higher organizational level.
The dollar bill segment is the most detailed in the episode. Maxwell walks through the imagery on the reverse of the one-dollar note: the unfinished pyramid with its floating capstone and the all-seeing eye, the Latin inscriptions Annuit Coeptis and Novus Ordo Seclorum, and the thirteen-leaf, thirteen-berry, thirteen-arrow composition surrounding the eagle. Franklin Roosevelt, Maxwell claims, put this imagery on the dollar precisely because any person anywhere in the world, regardless of poverty, would hold the symbols of the secret societies in their hands. Cooper adds that the all-seeing eye above the pyramid is identical to the CBS eye logo, and that the NBC peacock tail and the America Online logo incorporate the same symbol in variant form.
The sun-religion argument receives extensive treatment. Maxwell traces the identification of Jesus with the solar deity through the winter solstice: the sun stops moving on the sundial on December 22, stays stationary through the 24th, and resumes northward motion on December 25, at which point, he argues, the ancient Egyptians declared the sun reborn. The Passover is connected to the sun passing from winter death into spring life, and the corona of thorns on crucifixion imagery is identified with the sun’s corona rays, the same crown visible on the Statue of Liberty. Cooper confirms that December 25 is not the birth date of Christ but the birthday of the sun in the ancient Mystery Religion, which was later incorporated into Christianity to attract pagan worshipers.
The episode closes with Cooper reading a passage from his book Behold a Pale Horse to the effect that a people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals, and are steaks on the table by choice and consent. Maxwell provides his postal address in Burbank, California, for listeners to write in, and Cooper closes with his standard address in Show Low, Arizona. Cooper notes that the broadcast marks the twenty-third hour of Mystery Babylon programming and describes it as the only media outlet in the world to have aired this material with the depth and complexity it deserves.
Key Claims Made in This Episode
Documented from the broadcast. The site records these claims; it does not endorse them. Dated claims also appear in the series timeline.
- Cooper claims, in agreement with Maxwell, that crime and the drug trade in American cities are purposely allowed to exist and in certain cases actively promoted, on the principle of Ordo Ab Chao: creating chaos to frighten the population into granting power to whoever promises to restore order.
- Cooper claims the Mafia was created by Giuseppe Mazzini, Albert Pike’s counterpart in Europe, and that this explains the persistent cooperation between the Mafia and agencies of the United States government, both being instruments of the same secret society network.
- Cooper claims, following Maxwell, that the black robes worn by judges, clergy, and university graduates trace to the Saturnalian cult of the ancient Sumerian world, in which black was the color assigned to Saturn, and that the ring worn at marriage is likewise a ring of Saturn.
- Cooper claims that the imagery on the reverse of the one-dollar bill was placed there deliberately by Franklin Roosevelt to ensure that people throughout the world would hold the symbols of the secret societies in their hands, and that the unfinished pyramid with its all-seeing capstone represents the New World Order still under construction.
- Cooper claims the CBS eye logo, the eyes on the NBC peacock tail feathers, and the America Online logo all incorporate the same all-seeing-eye symbol that appears above the pyramid on the dollar bill, and that the Prodigy computer service uses the pentagram as its symbol.
- Cooper claims, following Maxwell, that December 25 is not the birth date of Christ but the birthday of the sun in the ancient Mystery Religion: the sun stops on the sundial for three days at the winter solstice, and its first northward movement on December 25 was declared by the ancient Egyptians to be the sun’s rebirth, a symbolism later absorbed into Christian observance to capture pagan worshipers.
- Cooper claims that graffiti produced by Latino and Black street gangs in American cities are actually Masonic emblems and seals, that no such gang could have independently devised these symbols, and that a higher orchestrated intelligence is financing and directing gang activity to produce chaos.
- Cooper claims that Hollywood is an instrument in the hands of the secret societies, that the word derives from the holly-wood wands of the Celtic druid priests, and that all major media decisions affecting Los Angeles originate with unnamed powerful figures in New York.
- Cooper claims the creation of the United States in 1776 was designed to bring into the world the New Man, the illumined man, and that the numerical formula of 1776 encodes a three-degree-of-six structure equivalent to 666.
Primary Sources Cited in This Episode
| Source | Status | Where to find it |
|---|---|---|
| William Cooper, Behold a Pale Horse (1991), Chapter 1 | Not public domain; quoted passage under commentary use | Library copies; see our sources hub |
| Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (1871) (referenced in discussion) | Public domain | Search archive.org scans |
Notable Quotes
“According to the ancient cults, there was something called Ordo Ab Chao, in Latin which meant, ‘order out of chaos.’ The idea was that if you can create enough chaos, people will be sufficiently frightened and give to you the power to bring back law and order.”
Jordan Maxwell, MB23, June 17, 1993
“A nation or world of people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals who do not have intelligence, and such people are beasts of burden and steaks on the table, by choice and consent.”
Cooper reading from Behold a Pale Horse, Chapter 1, MB23, June 17, 1993
Historians’ View
Academic historians of religion do not support the claim that December 25 was established as the Christian feast of Christ’s birth by absorbing a pre-existing pagan solar festival. The historical record indicates the date emerged from internal Christian calculations, though its relationship to the Roman feast of Sol Invictus remains debated among scholars. The derivation of Halloween and other cultural practices from occult planetary symbolism as Maxwell describes is not accepted in mainstream etymology or cultural history. The claim that Giuseppe Mazzini founded the Mafia is not supported by organized crime historians, who trace the Mafia’s origins to Sicilian regional structures predating Mazzini’s political activity; the claim originates in anti-Masonic literature. The interpretation of gang graffiti as derived from Masonic symbols has not been corroborated by criminologists or street-art scholars. We document all claims as broadcast; we do not endorse them.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is Mystery Babylon episode 23 about?
Episode 23 is a live interview between Cooper and Jordan Maxwell, an independent researcher of occult symbolism. The episode covers the Ordo Ab Chao principle, sun-religion symbolism in Christmas, the Masonic imagery on the dollar bill, the black robe of Saturn, Hollywood as an occult instrument, and the connection between Masonic networks and gang activity. It is part of the broader Mystery Schools and Ancient Religion hub and the Secret Societies hub.
Who is Jordan Maxwell?
Jordan Maxwell is an independent researcher who began studying secret societies and occult symbolism in 1959. He describes his entry into the subject as coming through a family member employed in a Vatican office who described behind-the-scenes political intrigue. By the time of this interview Cooper notes that Maxwell’s research had run parallel to his own across many areas and had arrived at the same conclusions. Maxwell’s postal address is given at the end of the episode as Post Office Box 7442, Burbank, California 91510.
What does Ordo Ab Chao mean and why does it matter in this episode?
Ordo Ab Chao is Latin for order out of chaos. Maxwell presents it as an operational principle descending from the ancient mystery cults, by which deliberately created disorder frightens a population into surrendering power to whoever offers to restore stability. Both Maxwell and Cooper argue that drug trafficking, gang activity, and social disorder in American cities operate on this principle, citing Hitler’s manufactured crisis as a worked historical example. This claim connects to the broader Luciferian Doctrine and New Age hub and the series’ New World Order thesis.
Where can I listen to episode 23?
The complete series is preserved at archive.org. The site never hosts or distributes the audio; see our content policy.
Continue the Series
- Previous: MB22: William Morgan Interview Pt 3
- Next: MB24: America’s Assignment Pt 1
- Related interview: MB28: Lucifer (Jordan Maxwell and Anthony Hilder)
- Topic hub: Secret Societies in the Mystery Babylon Series
- Topic hub: Freemasonry in the Mystery Babylon Series
- Every dated claim from this episode appears on the series timeline
- Full index: Mystery Babylon Complete Episode Guide
- Sources referenced: Sources and Bibliography
